tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8650016011092217489.post7020291640727708166..comments2024-03-03T00:22:04.287-08:00Comments on Confessions of Not a Grognard: Why I Tolerate the Proficiency SystemHamlethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05135081554790749914noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8650016011092217489.post-49239077563145285332009-04-09T00:22:00.000-07:002009-04-09T00:22:00.000-07:00Possibly, I do not recall the full conversation at...Possibly, I do not recall the full conversation at <I>Giant in the Playground</I>. The <I>Dragonsfoot</I> discussion was pretty good, as it was not about whether proficiencies are good or bad, but how to use them, and what the alternatives are. That being the case, I think you may have guessed incorrectly at the content. ;)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05646247954542936623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8650016011092217489.post-39867981518484986052009-04-07T12:36:00.000-07:002009-04-07T12:36:00.000-07:00Matthew: We had this discussion over at Giant in t...Matthew: We had this discussion over at Giant in the Playground too, you and I.<BR/><BR/>I think we left it off at agreeing to disagree. And I can certainly guess what the dragonsfoot folk said about nwp without having to try and go around the firewall.<BR/><BR/>In the end, I still look upon it as that happy medium between no skill set at all and a fully enumerated and comprehensive skill set. It gives me, the GM, something to use as a simple baseline without having to swing to either pole - "if you don't have the skill you can't do it" or "you can do anything your character would typically be able to do as determined by my whim."<BR/><BR/>I also find that it does, from time to time, open up interesting opportunities for in game twists. I've had a player take Omen Reading as a proficiency and want to use it as, in game, the group was rather stuck at the moment and directionless. Having that guy remind me of his training to read omens, no matter how you interpret the proficiency, gave me as the GM a nice "out" to nudging the players in a direction that would be conducive to the game in entirety.<BR/><BR/>Like I said, it's just an otherwise unobtrusive mechanic that sits quietly in the background if it's not needed.Hamlethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05135081554790749914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8650016011092217489.post-43380332515270609932009-04-02T22:28:00.000-07:002009-04-02T22:28:00.000-07:00We had a good conversation about this over on Drag...We had a good conversation about this over on <I>Dragonsfoot</I> a few months back, which you can read here: <BR/><BR/>http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32512<BR/>http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32517<BR/><BR/>I think Badmike is being overly hard on the OSRIC document, though, as it is not a criticism specifically of second edition, nor the proficiency system, but of skill systems in general. That said, I am not a fan of the proficiency system, nor even of the weapon proficiency system that started it all.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05646247954542936623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8650016011092217489.post-75952624531336054852009-03-25T14:59:00.000-07:002009-03-25T14:59:00.000-07:00Not a big fan myself, but they can be fun.If you g...Not a big fan myself, but they can be fun.<BR/><BR/>If you get someone with omen reading, for instance, you can toss clues into their lap. "You see a pair of swallows swoop low over the path in front of you, then soar into the sky. A bad omen; best be careful of your shoes." It can be something that's merely silly, a bit of light-hearted before the sturm-und-drang to come, or it might be an actual warning about pit traps or grey ooze to come.<BR/><BR/>It's up to the players to make their choices useful, but I never pass up an opportunity to make a NWP fun. Things like cooking or heraldry or dance can be an excuse to drop a pinch of exposition into the players' laps, or hand them a bit of forshadowing, or even just build a running gag out of.<BR/><BR/>- Briantrollsmythhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01895349218958093151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8650016011092217489.post-46315632274815447142009-03-24T07:12:00.000-07:002009-03-24T07:12:00.000-07:00I find the fact that two people actually agree wit...I find the fact that two people actually agree with me both awesome and disturbing.<BR/><BR/>All of that said, I do, to a certain extent, agree with people who do not want NWP's in their game. In a better world, with perfect players and DM's, they simply wouldn't be needed.<BR/><BR/>But we are none of us perfect, and so we have arguments like this.Hamlethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05135081554790749914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8650016011092217489.post-39294139664598174062009-03-23T19:02:00.000-07:002009-03-23T19:02:00.000-07:00NWPs are yet another victim of a commonly observed...NWPs are yet another victim of a commonly observed phenomenon among grognards and 4rons alike: Not properly reading the 2nd edition rules before criticising them.<BR/><BR/>This post is spot on. Keep up the good fight! ;)noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8650016011092217489.post-26041135018240938092009-03-23T16:07:00.000-07:002009-03-23T16:07:00.000-07:00"In the end, I view the proficiency system as exac..."In the end, I view the proficiency system as exactly that: a system for determining what your character is proficient in beyond what the average schlub is capable of." <BR/><BR/>Exactly.<BR/><BR/>I have come to the conclusion that all the problems with NWP can be boiled down to these simple things: either ignorance or misreading of the 2E rules; or dislike of a system that in old school player's minds exemplifies the break with the 1E rules system. Now, I'm used to a lot of old schoolers outright hating anything after 1E merely by the fact at that point EGG was no longer part of TSR; however, I cannot fathom why a very quick reading of the rules as written does not completely erase the false idea of "if you use the NWP system, you have endless rolls of people falling off horse, not being able to start a campfire, or not being able to cook a baked potato". The rules couldn't be more plain when NWP rolls should be made, so I'm forced to assume willful ignorance here on the part of NWP haters. I think they know EXACTLY what the rules say, but setting up a straw man and then burning him down is much easier than dealing with them in an rational way.<BR/><BR/>The complete misrepresentation of the NWP (the OSRIC rules system is the latest to mangle it in a partisan example) is one reason why I cannot consider myself "old school" even though I fit the profile. A rules system should sink or swim on it's merits, not on made up examples that have no connection to reality.<BR/><BR/>Use it or not, based on your preferences (it is considered an "optional" rule, at that), but please don't pretend it's something it's not.Badmikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06199830751033032585noreply@blogger.com